21 Excellent and Unanswered Questons about SGM/Mahaney

Jenn Grover asks 21 excellent and unanswered questions on her FB at: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=695090287&ref=tn_tnmn#!/jenn.grover

 

21 Questions and Concerns for SGM Pastors
(or, When is enough, enough?)

I have had discussions with SGM pastors and leaders and none have really been able to answer any of these questions and concerns. I can't help but wonder how much is too much before pastors put SGM on notice.

1. Why did CJ, in essence, fire Ted Kober? How is mediation or conflict resolution occurring?
2. If CJ felt the freedom to fire Ted for this, why should anyone believe he will take the report seriously?
3. How will mediation between CJ and CLC members occur?
4. Where is CJ planting his church?
5. Who is funding his church plant? Who will be on his team?
6. Is the SGM headquarters moving?
7. In light of Matt 5, how can a man with unreconciled relationships (so many, so recent) be qualified to plant a church?
8. SGM made it seem like Brent's allegations were untrue when the documents became public. They have yet to present any evidence that contradicts Brent's documents. Will they acknowledge they were wrong?
9. Will CJ or SGM address the Tomczack letter?
10. No one has publicly confessed or apologized to those of us in SGM for only giving us the reasons for Larry's departure from their perspective and thereby misleading us. It appears as though the entire board is culpable in this matter (Steve, Brent, Dave, CJ.) What can we expect in this matter?
11. There have been no specific confessions by any leader since the crisis began in July. There has been no asking of forgiveness. Even in CJ's remarks at the Nov. PC he did not confess that it was his wrongdoing that has affected pastors, he merely apologized that pastors have been affected by the circumstances. If there has been no public confession, no acknowledgement, how can we have any assurance that there has been acceptance of blame or responsibility which is the crucial initial step towards change?
12. The board has misled us by only revealing partial information or parsing words in the case of representing who initiated the idea for the preliminary panel as well as who wrote the questions the three panels addressed. How can we expect them to address these issues? How are we to trust men who have orchestrated such deception?
13. The board said it would comply in full with the AoR initial report. So far, they have not really complied at all.
a. The report indicated that the board members needed to go in person to Brent. Instead of Dave, Steve, and CJ going to Brent, they sent Mickey with a letter.
b. AoR recommended 3 panels of 5 men chosen via blind draw. The board chose 3 panels of 3 men with no blind draw, but men of their own choosing.
c. The board said they would use AoR's questions. The board wrote their own questions.
14. Mark Prater told me, and Dave Harvey indicated on the SGM blog, that after the panel report, they would tell "the other side of the story" that would vindicate CJ in the blackmail matter. That has never occurred. Furthermore, what could possibly vindicate CJ of the blackmail charge? Mark also indicated that disclosing the other side of the story could unfairly affect the panels. Can someone explain why CJ's remarks at the Nov. PC would not have had a greater impact on the panels?
15. The panel found CJ and the board guilty in the case of sinful coercion. The actions they took legally translated into blackmail, which is a felony. Can someone explain how that does not disqualify CJ and the other board members involved based on the Scripture that mandates that leaders must be "above reproach?"
16. CJ and Josh are unreconciled, SGM and CLC are unreconciled, and other interim board members are unreconciled with members and pastors. Can someone explain how their current ministry positions and activities are in harmony with the command in Matt. 18 to "leave your gift at the alter…"? Furthermore, the board's failure to respond to the charges against interim board members seem to signal that they have not learned from this season and still do not take charges seriously.
17. The board has never actually admitted to any mistakes, only that they could have done better. They also blame many of their issues during this season on poor communication, yet, when I spoke with Mark Prater he indicated that the SGM view on transparency and informing members of information has not fundamentally changed. For example, the time when Mark knew he was leaving Providence and they were interviewing and considering other guys for Mark's position was left unknown to the non-vocational board member and congregation. It was only after all decisions had been made final that we were informed. According to Mark, we would not expect that situation to occur much differently today than it happened 10 years ago. Mark still believes that people are not always "served" by being fed information.
18. The charges against Dave and Steve have gone completely unaddressed, except where the panel report touched on them regarding blackmail. Why is that?
19. I have heard repeatedly that pastors are awaiting the AoR report before making any decisions. Can you explain what it is that pastors expect to see in the AoR report?
20. Has the SGM membership agreement changed? Pastors seem to state that SGM has no authority over local churches, yet, as evidenced time and time again, the SGM board has exercised extra-local authority time and time again. When CJ came to make the Mark Prater announcement to Pittsburgh, he claimed ultimate responsibility for the decision. Numerous leaders have been removed due to SGM involvement. Even in Larry's recent open letter, we learned that SGM board felt it had the authority to remove Mark Altrogge and Benny Phillips (although they did not act on that notion.) What has changed that they no longer have this authority?
21. After the instances where it has been proven that the board left out key information or used information out of context for their own advantage, how can pastors continue to trust the same men? How many cases of deception are necessary before pastors stop trusting them? I know Pastors frequently cite key names and their lack of negative experiences with these men, but what about those of us who have had negative experiences with these men? Are we supposed to disregard are own experiences and perceptions in exchange for pastors who may have received better treatment than us?

SGMgate: "Why the 3-Panel Approach is a Sham"



https://www.facebook.com/notes/jenn-grover/why-the-3-panel-approach-is-a-sham/10150349738237385
"Why the 3 Panel Approach is a Sham"

By Jenn Grover

1. The board didn't want to do it, they are only doing it because they were pressured. They felt it was unnecessary.
2. Instead of a cohesive picture, three panels are going to split the issues and weigh them separate. Like with any disease, things don't look so bad if you fragment them but piece the whole thing together and you see the severity of the problems. Fragmentation has been part of the board's strategy. When I submitted many questions, Mark Prater came to answer them directly (Sept. 21.) I requested that it not just be me, that others have a chance to ask their questions, too. That request was ignored. I petitioned that answers to my questions be posted online somewhere so others could benefit from hearing the answers. That was denied. I did not and do not feel it was fair to only address my questions.
3. Panels have been shrunk to 3 members - 1 board member and 2 senior pastors. If SGM believes that senior pastors are "first among equals" why the need for only senior pastors? Why the need for a board member, they already want to reinstate CJ without adjudication, so they are clearly biased. Do they not trust the pastors?
4. There is no detail explaining how the panels will be chosen.
5. The panels make recommendations; the board is not bound to them. AoR chastised the board for being only accountable to themselves. This set-up is a repeat of that problem.
6. It seems absurd to even bother with evaluating the circumstances of Brent's removal without presenting his side. Talk about a kangaroo court.

I am convinced the only way to evaluate these charges is to do it openly n front of all SGM pastors like the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) and throughout church history. Appeal to your pastors to appeal to the board, AoR, Ken Sande and others to press the SGM board for this.

http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/blogs/sgm/post/Evaluating-Brent-Detwilere28099s-allegations.aspx

Sovereign Grace: Judgments by, for and on Stupid People, Leaders Included

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/07/29/confessions-of-an-sgm-pastor/

Confessions of an SGM Pastor

Fri, Jul 29 2011

By deb

“The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live. " Leo Buscaglia

sunset over the Sahara (NASA)

Sovereign Grace Ministries has been experiencing tremendous upheaval since C.J. Mahaney stepped down earlier this month. Almighty God appears to be bringing conviction to the hearts of some SGM leaders, and only time will tell whether these “heart changes” are the real deal.

Mark Mullery, senior pastor of the Sovereign Grace Church in Fairfax, made a public confession of his sins when he addressed the congregation last Sunday (July 24th) at a Family Meeting. These confessions were directed toward former members of the church, namely Noel and Wallace.

For those not familiar with these individuals and their testimonies, Noel is a wife and mother who discovered that her three year old daughter had been molested by a 15 year old boy who attended SGM Fairfax along with his family. Her story has been archived at SGM Survivors in three installments. You can begin reading here.

Wallace and his wife Happymom are also former members of SGM Fairfax, and their two children were sexually abused. We featured their story here at TWW on April 12, 2011. (link) SGM Survivors has also archived Wallace’s Story here.

Each of these families has suffered terribly in the aftermath of their children’s sexual abuse, but what’s even more devastating is that they were spiritually abused by their own pastors!

Last Sunday evening Mark Mullery gave an emotional confession that confirmed the testimonies of Noel and Wallace. You can access the audio of the Fairfax Family Meeting at this link. http://media.sovgracefairfax.org/mp3/07-24-11%20Family%20Meeting.mp3 Because we have followed both of these stories so closely, we wanted to update our readers with Mark Mullery's remarks regarding Noel and Wallace. Here is a transcript of Mullery’s confession.

*****************************************************************

“We are in a time when Sovereign Grace Ministries and Sovereign Grace Church here in Fairfax are being critiqued for the way pastors have led. As I mentioned earlier, there are several blogs that have focused on these issues. Two stories in particular have appeared on those blogs that address situations in this church and address our pastors in particular. What follows is a confession in response to these stories entitled Noel’s Story and Wallace’s Story.
Romans 12:15, the second half simply says: “Weep with those who weep.” This is a good place to start when it comes to the topic of sexual abuse and the sexual abuse of children. By now many of you have become aware of two stories on Sovereign Grace Ministries Survivor blog and the Refuge blog as well I believe — one called Noel’s Story, the other Wallace’s Story. Both of these individuals were at one time members of our church, and both have sad stories to tell.

Noel, a pen name, recounts the tragic story of the sexual assault of her young daughter, which occurred in 1998. Wallace, also a pen name, tells of having two children molested – the incidents coming to light in 1998 and 2007. In each of these cases the perpetrators were young men whose families were also part of our church.

These incidents are still exceedingly painful for these families and understandably so. No parent, no compassionate person can learn of these sins without experiencing sorrow, grief, and heartache over the violation of these innocent children.

But as sad as this is, it gets worse. When these incidents came to light, these families were in trouble. These were children who were victims who had been horribly sinned against.

“Blessed are the merciful,” Jesus says, and moments like this require extraordinary amounts of tender care, of merciful comfort. This is a time to bind up the brokenhearted and to weep with those who weep.

And that’s just what your pastors did, right? Well, with deep regret I confess, we didn’t. Noel and Wallace are justified in critiquing the pastoral care they received through their trials and afflictions. Sadly, and it breaks my heart to tell you this, sadly in seeking to care for them, we became part of their trial. Like Job’s counselors, we came in a time of need and made things worse. Looking back, we made many mistakes. Here are a few.

We lost sight of the victim. These are complicated moments in the swirl of all the other things to think about, we lost sight of the simple fact that an innocent victim had been grievously sinned against and was in need of constant care. One of the moms reflected to me later and said for us this was 24/7.

We should have followed up more and over a longer period of time. We failed to surround the victims and their families with care. Failed to SURROUND them. Our instincts were to keep the circle of those who knew about this small. We weren’t trying to cover anything up, but we did want to protect the identity of the victim.

Sadly, this left the victim’s parents without the support system they needed at the time when they most needed it. We should have made sure more people knew and knew quickly. Both people in their care group where they needed to be able to work these things through and close trusted friends as well. Many more people were needed to be in place to extend care to the victim’s family. We failed.

These were situations where the family of the victim and the family of the perpetrator were friends. There were pre-existing, close relationships. As they’re trying to sort these things through, when relational conflicts arose between the victim’s family and the perpetrator’s family, we unwisely used a Peacemaker model for conflict resolution. This resulted, put them on an equal plane – get the log out of your eye, get the log out of your eye, go for the speck, go for the speck – this resulted in the victim’s family being corrected when they should have been gently cared for as sufferers.

Oh, I’m so sad. We allowed that to happen and led and participated in that way. I did that. Our aversion to therapeutic thinking kept us from language and people and resources that would have helped these families and that would have helped us help these families. We didn’t give hurting people room to air their emotions.

How in the world is somebody whose child has just been cruelly sexually abused gonna process that flawlessly? Of course, it’s gonna be raw. But instead of giving them the room to work things through, we corrected them, and they expressed themselves in ways that we deemed incorrect. I’m so sorry. We were proud. We didn’t know what we didn’t know. We were ignorant.

The hurts from these sins, the effect of sexual abuse of a child runs deeper and lasts longer than any of us could have imagined. We’ve been accused of not getting it. Guilty as charged. We didn’t get it. I’m so sorry. (Long tearful pause)

These aren’t just stories or statistics; these are people. As an elder and the senior pastor, I had opportunities to bring mercy and grace, to bind up the brokenhearted, to comfort the suffering. I was trying. I was attempting to be helpful, but it pains me to see how often in retrospect I wasn’t. I deeply regret my impatience, self-righteousness, pride, hardheartedness. These things compounded their suffering instead of easing it.

We’ve reached out to Noel, to Wallace, their spouses and families. It pains me to say, it grieves me to say, that our attempts to be reconciled to them have not proven successful so far. Please pray that this might happen.

Now for some of you, this may hit home because you may feel that you too have been hurt or mistreated by your pastors here. If that’s the case, sorry. And we want to humble ourselves, and we want to make things right.

If you don’t feel safe talking to us, please bring a friend, write a note, reach out to us in some way. We really want to hear from you. We want to listen to you. We want to learn from you. We don’t want to correct you. We want to discover where we’ve hurt you, where we’ve sinned against you and seek your forgiveness so we can change.

We deeply regret our failures with these families. We deeply regret the pain that we have caused, but we do thank God that we have a risen Savior in heaven. Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. By God’s grace we commit ourselves to learning, growing, and changing so that no parent ever has this experience in this church again.

We can’t agree with everything that’s written about us on the blogs, but we’ve tried to go to school on what we can agree with. We want our children to be safe. We want children who are hurt, victimized, and abused to be well cared for and their families as well. We’ve tried to learn from our mistakes. We’ve tried to learn from these experiences and to make substantive changes in response.”

**************************************************************

Earlier this week a former SGM pastor speculated over at SGM Survivors that Mark Mullery did not contact Noel and Wallace prior to the Family Meeting to let them know he would be discussing their stories and issuing a confession. Here is his comment. (link)
Rom828 (comment #211) July 27th, 2011 at 10:46 pm

"All this is quite overwhelming to someone new like myself. I entered like most sharing my two cents worth on arrival but really it takes time to absorb all that is said, felt and expressed on this site. Hard to keep up with which testimony is whose. So I am sitting back, listening, reading and learning what I can. One thought on Mark Mullery… if I am an SGM pastor (which I was) I would at least call the people I would be talking about in the meeting (hopefully he did but it does not sound like it) expressing that I would be following up with them on this. I would say please take what we will say as a teeny attempt at expressing our horror, sadness and regret for all that transpired. Please let’s get together and talk so that the pastors involved can adequately confess our sin to you and then more clearly and definitively confess our sin before the church. Just my thought… hopefully this happened… we’ll see. As someone mentioned… I would not want to hear from friends or mp3 or video what was said about me to a congregation by a pastor without hearing from him first."
Then yesterday morning Wallace’s wife, whose moniker is “happymom”, confirmed Rom828's theory in a comment on the Survivors blog (same link as Rom828’s): happymom (comment #245) July 28th, 2011 at 6:48 am

"Something I find interesting. Fairfax posted their response to the SGM issues on their Facebook account. July 10, 2011, Mark refers to us as “voices on the internet…speaking to the issues and OUR CHURCH IN PARTICULAR.” If not Noel, Grizzly, Wallace and myself, who else could he be referencing, since we have been the ones seeking to expose how they handle abuse? So how did he transition from labeling us as “voices” to the group of people he is now tearful over in front of his church? Why were we not informed of this sudden acknowledgment of wrongdoing? (emphasis mine) Their final summary letter to us dated September 30, 2010, clearly lays out that we were wrong and pastor lg is right. Are they now willing to hear our questions and allow pastor lg to answer them? This is not a family issue if the staff continues to ignore our challenges to lg’s apologies and cover him. I am appalled that pastor lg mentioned child b’s name when the behavior and abandonment of him and his family have caused as much emotional pain and suffering as the incident itself."

At the Fairfax Family Meeting, two other pastors (Vince and Lou) addressed the congregation. Lou is HappyMom's brother-in-law. Yes, the uncle of Wallace and HappyMom's children confessed that he sinned against his own flesh and blood by not comforting them in their time of tremendous need. You can hear Lou's apology in the audio link above.

I am continuing to follow the comments over at SGM Survivors, and last night Noel posted her initial response to Mark Mullery’s confession. She shares that she "cried as Mark confessed to the church and was so encouraged that he was finally trying to do something right."

However, the remarks made by Vince and Lou upset her terribly. Based on her candid reaction, it appears Vince and Lou spoke in such generalities that they misled the congregation about what really happened. She concludes her reaction with these words:

"Tell the truth about who tried to reconcile……tell the truth about why these families are not reconciled. Stop with the "damage control" already! Tell the truth." Sadly, it appears there is much more work that needs to be done before any kind of reconciliation can take place between the SGM Fairfax pastors and these victimized families. May God's will be done in this tragic situation.

C.J Mahaney and Crime of Blackmail?

Did C.J. Mahaney commit a crime of blackmail?  The Detwiler records suggest he has.  That discussion is occuring opening and widely at SGM.  "Unassimilated" is an interlocutor on SGM. We post our thoughts below on the criminal nature of the event.

http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=2532#comments

@Unassimilated #59.

You said:
"Unassimilated
 July 19th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
Sidney –
Blackmail = trading chip
Wow, just wow."
------------------------
Doing some checking on "black mail" as "statutory extortion."  I post an Iowan, North Carolinian, and MOST IMPORTANTY, a Federal Statute.  Blackmail is a crime with possible fines and imprisonment.  Minimally, with a conviction, probation and go "pee" in a cup for a probation officer periodically.  What's under review with Mr. Mahaney is most serious.

The guru of criminal law, Professor Rollin Perkins, defines it as: "(1) the extraction of money or other value by means of an unlawful threat, or (2) an unlawful threat made for that purpose."  R. Perkins and R. Boyce, Criminal Law (Mineola, NY: The Foundation Press, 1982), pg.448.

In this instance, Mr. Mahaney's "sought value" was the removal of Mr. Thomczac (sp?).  Mr. Mahaney and his fellow conferees (ministers) on the telephone wanted Mr. Thomczac gone.

The unlawful threat, at least morally and biblically speaking, if not legally, was to expose a penitent's confession, namely, the confession of Mr. Tomczac's teenager son. Undoubtedly and presumptively, the Thomczac family valued the safety, emotional protection, and nurturance of their son the confessor. That appears to be written in the law of nature, to wit, care for our offspring. That safety and the family's name were assets to Mr. and Mrs. Thomczac.  Mr. Mahaney threatened to divulge the sexual nature of the teen's confession if Mr. Thomczac failed to step down.  (There are phone recordings of the group conference on the phone according to Mr. Detwiler.  Also, the record shows that SGM had legal counsel that warned Mr. Mahaney about proceeding further.  The blackmail may have been thwarted, but the words had been uttered, assumably, bring fear, anxiety and hurt to the Thomczac family.)

The "extorsive threat" may include in each category "any relative or member of his/her family." such as: (1) unlawful injury to the person or property, (2) accuation of a crime, (3) imputation of some deformity or disgrace, or (4) exposure of any secret affecting him/her.

As far as Iowa statutes are concerned, blackmail is a crime.  It is a "class D felony." Iowa Criminal Code, Sections 711.4 (1978).  It is a class 1 misdemeanour in the NC statues. G.S.N.C. 14.118 that can be addressed by a fine and/or imprisonment.

Another source defines it this way: (http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/white_collar_crimes/extortion_blackmail.htm)

"Definition of Blackmail

"Blackmail is when the offender threatens to reveal information about a victim or his family members that is potentially embarrassing, socially damaging, or incriminating unless a demand for money, property, or services is met. Even if the information is true or actually incriminating, you can still be charged with blackmail if you threaten to reveal it unless the victim meets your demand.
"Legal Consequences of Extortion and Blackmail

"Many states combine the crimes of extortion and blackmail under one general law. In California, for example, the applicable statute is known as the California Extortion and Blackmail Law. Under this law, anyone who threatens an individual with the use of force (extortion) or threatens to reveal damaging information about a person or his family members is guilty of a crime. Under California law, extortion or blackmail are graded as felonies and are punishable by up to four years in prison and a maximum fine of $10,000.

"In the end, if someone has threatened you, it does not matter if it is considered extortion or blackmail. What matters is that you get help from the police or your attorney as soon as possible because both extortion and blackmail are serious crimes."

Under the Federal Code, 18 U.S.C., Section 873, we read (http://law.justia.com/codes/us/title18/18usc873.html) and we quote, as per below.  Again, a fine and prison for up to one year is possible.

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

                             PART I--CRIMES

                    CHAPTER 41--EXTORTION AND THREATS

Sec. 873. Blackmail

    Whoever, under a threat of informing, or as a consideration for not
informing, against any violation of any law of the United States,
demands or receives any money or other valuable thing, shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; Pub. L. 103-322, title XXXIII,
Sec. 330016(1)(I), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

                      Historical and Revision Notes
    Based upon title 18, U.S.C., 1940 ed., Sec. 250 (Mar. 4, 1909, ch.
321, Sec. 145, 35 Stat. 1114). Only minor changes were made in phraseology

Saga of Sovereign Grace Ministries Continues: Baptacostal C.J. Mahaney's Protege and Successor Resigns from Board

C.J. Mahaney's young protege and successor resigns from the Board of Sovereign Grace Ministries (SGM).  Mahaney has come under pressure after a 600-page document dump landed in the inbox of all SGM Pastors (100+).  Al Mohler and Ligon Duncan forcefully defended their "friend" (their word) this week waving off analysis, inquiry, consideration and evaluation.  Larger issues are at bar, to wit: American evangelical "celebrity culture" with young conference followers and hand-wavers...as well as the financial issues and moral temptations in stardom. C.J, though taking a "leave of absence" from SGM to "explore his own sin and pride" (his words), will return in 4 months and will be featured in the mega-conference, "Together for the Gospel," 10-12 April 2012, in Louisville, KY. They are expecting 10,000 attendees at about $269/registrant for total receipts of about $2.69 million dollars.  (The conference centre and 22,000 seat arena rents for about $560K with production costs of up to $1 million for an estimated profit of $1 million.  We'd like to see the financials. Plus they all sell their books there too.)  C.J. will be featured alongside (Baptyrian or Presbabaptist) Ligon Duncan, Al Mohler, John Piper, Platt, DeYoung, Chandler, Anyabwile and others of the YRR-crowd, the "Young Restless Crowd" of new Calvinistic Baptists. Although essentially a Baptist event, there will be some break-out speakers with solid credentials from the Catholic faith of the Reformation churches, but they are few.  The Mahaney-saga continues although there appears to be a tap-down on information.

http://livingtext.wordpress.com/2011/07/14/josh-harris-resigns/

Events are in the saddle and the landscape is changing fast at Sovereign Grace Ministries. Josh Harris is now stepping down from the SGM board, per this announcement. It is probably a wise move by Harris, allowing him to disassociate himself from what is beginning to look like a circle the wagons mentality on the part of the SGM board. It also helps him be a pastor – his main duty – during a crisis for his denomination.

Again and again this points out to me that we need small parishes of 150-300 people, coupled with faithful pastors and a clear structure. The whole big shot, super-star, cult of personality model of ministry should be put to death.

SGM and Mahaney: Cult-Proofing Insiders and Outsiders

http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=2421&cpage=1#comment-37505

Patricia July 13th, 2011 at 10:31 am  

Is SGM a cult? Questions to ask yourself:

1. Does the group leader have a special charm and persuasion that its people find inexplicable and hard to resist? Yes. Mahaney is a celebrity often receiving thunderous applause when he speaks. In the minds of many, he can do no wrong.

2. Do the people in the group seem a bit too friendly, loving, smiling and happy? Yes. New people are love bombed (a technique used in cult recruiting, in which membership in the cult is intimately linked to love and attachment which engender complete loyalty to the cause.)

3. Do the people in the group offer to help with almost anything church centered? Yes. Most are rarely involved with service outside SGM that spreads the Gospel to unbelievers. They mostly recruit people from other churches.

4. Does the group claim to have a special mission or calling that is unique and not found elsewhere? Yes. No other church emphasizes both the charismatic and reformed. The church music was created within SGM ranks. All pastors must attend the church’s own special college for SGM training.

5. Have many people and/or leaders have left the group and if so, why? Hundreds if not more. In fact SGM has a largely negative Internet presence as a result of people sharing concerns over abuse.

6. Are there any checks and balances of the leadership and power structure? No, the congregations have no input.

7. Does the group have a constitution or laws of government? No. If after the WikiLeak incident, one is formed, it appears that the people will have little voice in the content.

8. Do quite a few people talk about their pastor a lot, as though he is God? Yes, in fact in one sermon C.J. Mahaney said that when all believers stand before Christ for the first time, they will be surrounding their pastor and thanking Christ for him.

9. What is the group’s view on leadership authority and discipleship? The pastors are central and the congregant’s job is to make his pastor happy as described in Mahaney’s sermon “The Happiest Place on Earth”. Quote by C.J. Mahaney regarding the congregation’s role, “The effectiveness of pastoral ministry is dependent upon a proper response TO pastoral ministry.”

10. What is the group’s view on dating and marriage? Rigid styles of courtship are heavily encouraged and young people are carefully monitored in the congregation. Women are under the covering of their husbands and fathers, and have very little voice outside the sphere of things pertaining to women.

11. Is there an elitist mentality? Yes. Many view SGM as superior due to its understanding of the importance of both the charismatic and the reformed, along with recognition of giftings. This is used to keep people from considering other churches. Many who have left SGM were shunned. The SGM atmosphere is pharisaical.

12. How do your parents or close relations outside of the group feel about it? Many are concerned for those they love in SGM churches.

13. What are the finances of the group? Are there secrets? Yes, see http://www.wartburgwatch.com on Mahaney and Al Mohler.

14. Does the group motivate its members mostly through fear and guilt? Yes. Sin-sniffing is common through confessions in front of groups.

15. Have any articles been written about the group? Yes, the Internet has thousands of negative postings with several blogs focused on the abuses.

16. Are there disgruntled former members? Yes, a great many.

17. Do the disgruntled former members all more or less tell a similar story to why they left? Yes, most describe pastoral abuse but even sexual abuse has occurred and been ignored by the leadership.

18. Did they leave because they disagreed with either the teachings or the practices of the group or its leader? Yes.

19. How was the disagreement handled? Through shunning and shaming. No direct acknowledgement of abuses toward individual members has arisen even after the WikiLeaks expose.

20. Does your gut level feeling about this group tell you that something is wrong? Yes.

Questions taken from Paul Martin’s book Cult Proofing Your Kids.

Three More Resources on C. J. Mahaney

www.sgmsurvivors.com

www.sgmrefuge.com


www.thewartburgwatch.com


We posted a few days back some thoughts on C.J. Mahaney and the utterly unedifying spectacle of their ministry at Sovereign Grace Ministry, a consortium of Baptacostals (claiming to be Reformed, by the way). 

A poster has offered three URLs for further review. We are finding connections of Mr. Mahaney to an entire set of Baptists driving a huge convoy of "evangelical" buses in America.   As Confessional Anglicans, this convoy is not our our's, not now and not ever, but it's worth understanding.  They're modern "enthusiasts" who wouldn't know an old Prayer Book service is it hit them in the head.  Would be too dull, too restrictive, too un-spontaneous, too un-spiritual, too dull and too un-conducive to church growth.

CJ. Mahaney of Sovereign Grace Ministries Steps Down: Some Resources

Two words for all of it: highly unedifying.

For international readers, C.J. Mahaney has been a popular Charismatic, Predestinarian Baptist in America--a Baptacostal is you will--who has garnered attention in connection with "Sovereign Grace Ministries."  He has stepped down from this consortium of Baptacostal Churches.  Various leaders have been associated with Mahaney including R.C. Sproul, Ligon Duncan, Mark Dever, Donald Carson, John MacArthur, Al Mohler and others.  See:  http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/   Sovereign Grace appears to have about 102 churches in their federation.  Their internet, media and conference visibility appears to far outstrip their real influence.  The reading in the URLs is sad, introspective, judgmental and--like Pentecostalists--extremely individualist.  This goes to the heart of "celebrity culture," if not indicating some "cultic-like" orientations of authoritarianism. It's unedifying, but illuminating.  Egregiously and unacceptably, Dr. Ligon Duncan, President of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals (http://www.alliancenet.org/) unacceptably hosts C.J. Mahaney on the Board of Directors.  Mahaney, as we understand it, has a high school degree and nothing elese.  We'll never be able to support in any way "The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals."   Some resources are offered here from insiders on the "Mahaney Story."  The power of the email and internet is on full display here.  THERE IS A LEVEL OF SICKNESS AND DEPRAVITY THROUGHOUT.  In fact, the short version: avoid Mahaney-types, Sovereign Grace, Baptacostalists and their kind.  This requires psychiatric, pyschological and sociological skills in tandem with Biblical maturity.  We offer this not for our regular readers, but those interested in Charles Mahaney, as well as the Baptyerian Alliance of (Non) Confessing Evangelicals.  These are very, very unpleasant, lawless, and Gospelless readings.  The self-righteous legalism is wearisome. 

Part 2

http://www.scribd.com/doc/59532635/Part-2-A-Final-Appeal
Part 4

http://www.scribd.com/doc/59543166/Part-4-The-Untold-Story-Incomplete

Concluding Remarks Dated 8 Jun 2011

"C.J., I am genuinely grateful to the Triune God for the fruits of pride you've acknowledged, the changes you've made and the input you've received from others.  But,  I also remain deeply concerned because you and the Board of Direcgtors are unaffected on so many important fronts. This is alarming.  So here is my last attempt to focus your attention.  I hope you find it redemptive."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/59533268/Part-3-Concluding-Remarks