I will be attending Holy Communion tonight at 1700, 23 August 2009, in Jacksonville, NC.
The Archbishop of the Anglo-Catholic Communion, Dr. Mark Haverland, will be presiding. We are scheduled for a barbecue to follow.
I look forward to the meeting; some will view this as capitulation. It is not. The Reformation lines are drawn in the sand for this forlorn scribbler.
It must be irenic, thoughtful, and suffused with Christian charity.
The Gospel lesson for the Eleventh Sunday after Trinity demands such.
One hope is to secure one of theair reading lists for those in the queue for orders. If we get that, we will post it. We have posted the unhappy list secured from the Anglican Province of America, unhappy due to brevity (some 75 books) and remiss with respect to Anglican history.
As a former chaplain, it was always interesting to engage with informed and educated men, few though they were in the chaplaincy. One was a Jesuit Chaplain and he was academically "in the house" with twelve years of graduate training; Paul and I had great times at dinner table talking theology aboard the carrier with hot-shot F-18, A-7, and F-14 pilots listening in--quietly, as was their duty. We'd howl and engage, but always with charity.
Another was a liberal Methodist who didn't believe in the resurrection; another was a Pastor from the Presbyterian Church in America. These men were readers who "stayed on top of the game."
There were a few others.
Discussion does not, as for some, constitute advocacy of the positions of the other.
Humility is not optional. That must inform the defense of the faith. Arrogant orthodoxy is repugnant, Pharisaical, and ungentlemanly. We cannot escape that profoun nd disjunctive particle "but..." in Ephesians 2.4-5.
But God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved...
I respect the honesty of these Anglo-Romewardizers who do not capitulate and who openly defend their parameters consistently.
I find Dr. David Virtue's chaotic mix--the mishmash--less than coherent, consistent and, in some cases, candid; on the latter, I intend to review the interview between David Virtue and Dr. Michael Horton.
Over.
4 comments:
I spent 4 years as a prison chaplain. I know all about how to get along with unbelievers of various other faiths. There are polite ways of letting them know you think they are lost. And sometimes it is permissible to let them know in more direct ways. In seminary I did a unit of clinical pastoral education at Hospice of the Bluegrass in Lexington, Kentucky. The cpe director leading my class was a theologically liberal Roman Catholic nun who prayed to God as a Mother rather than as Father because one of the other students was a girl from the liberal Disciples of Christ seminary in Lexington. She had apparently been sexually molested by her father and therefore objected to the Lord's Prayer or any other prayers to God as Father. They insisted that I should not end my prayers with anything to do with God as Father. To which I politely responded that it would best that we not pray together.
It is my view that one should not pray with unbelievers in some pretense that they actually know God. One can consistently dialogue and even debate with those who disagree with the Gospel without compromising one's faith. Of course, it will not earn one brownie points with the heathen. Of course, you may not have a job for long if you actually take a stand for the truth. Which is why I am no longer a deacon with the Reformed Episcopal Church.
I would rather make tents than be a hireling for those promoting a false gospel. Call me rude. :)
Charlie said:
I spent 4 years as a prison chaplain. I know all about how to get along with unbelievers of various other faiths. There are polite ways of letting them know you think they are lost. And sometimes it is permissible to let them know in more direct ways. In seminary I did a unit of clinical pastoral education at Hospice of the Bluegrass in Lexington, Kentucky. The cpe director leading my class was a theologically liberal Roman Catholic nun who prayed to God as a Mother rather than as Father because one of the other students was a girl from the liberal Disciples of Christ seminary in Lexington. She had apparently been sexually molested by her father and therefore objected to the Lord's Prayer or any other prayers to God as Father. They insisted that I should not end my prayers with anything to do with God as Father. To which I politely responded that it would best that we not pray together.
PV: A good response. I would have had to do the same thing. In the Navy, it was code to never pray in Jesus' name, ever, in public venues. I could not comply with that. I escaped reproach while others were nailed, e.g. Chaplain Gordon Klingenschmitt. Aboard two carrier, during evening prayers, every other night, I ended the pray in the name of Almighty God. The second night, I would be more explicit, to wit, ending the prayer in Christ Jesus' name. A Jewish dentist, a Commander, threatend action. It just didn't matter to me. I invited him, as the Jewish lay reader, to offer a Jewish prayer, a Constitutional right. That wasn't his concern. His concern was to silence me. He went to the senior Chaplain who did nothing. He went to the Captain who did nothing. I did that for four years. He was mad. Kindness, but honesty.
Part two--size limitation to first post.
Charlie said:
It is my view that one should not pray with unbelievers in some pretense that they actually know God. One can consistently dialogue and even debate with those who disagree with the Gospel without compromising one's faith.
PV: Concur with sentence two. But, practically, sentence one doesn't apply much in my given situation...retired and don't pray with unbelievers. If unbelievers, I talk theology and they listen. I have concerns about tonight, but some interesting dialogues, without, as you noted, compromises.
Charlie said:
Of course, it will not earn one brownie points with the heathen. Of course, you may not have a job for long if you actually take a stand for the truth. Which is why I am no longer a deacon with the Reformed Episcopal Church.
PV: It's been interesting, in the past, in serious discussions, to tell someone they do not understand because they are "dead" and "hostile to God." A very interesting story on that with a Professor of English Literature. He taught aboard an aircraft carrier. It was direct, but kind. We became friends, but he never came to faith. He once expressed, "I can't believe." It was a heartfelt expression and he saw it. He asked, "How can I believe like you?" I invited him to seek God to grant him faith and repentance. It was sad, but he was utterly honest. I had a brutal senior Chaplain who kept me aboard the ship during port-of-calls, while he toured around. Later in the cruise, I broke this tyrannical Baptist's grip. But the English Prof got to go out in town. He always came back with some gift for me--commiserating with the obvious misery. The Skipper actually broke the senior chaplain's grip along with the Ship's Surgeon. My point is this. While speaking directly to the Professor about the Gospel, the Law, and his deadness, he didn't hate me, but actually loved and respected me. If we have not love, we fail His Majesty.
Charlie said:
I would rather make tents than be a hireling for those promoting a false gospel. Call me rude. :)
PV: Honestly, Charlie, some have called you rude. I'm glad for your post, however. It is very, very difficult to be pleasant to an enemy when they are bashing you, but it is a skill that must be practiced; it happened tonight, but oh well. Interestingly, the USMC General saw and walked away. The AB scored no points for close listeners which the General was and is. The Rector caught it too. Enough there.
A continued apology, to wit, the paragraphs in a number of articles. Despite attempts to correct this, "the changes" just don't take. Hence, some paragraphs run-on, run into others. If I could change it, I would.
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