We hesitate to take space here with this puerility. But having an REC background, we call attention to Rev. (bp.) Roy Grote of the REC and his comments about the continuum...Grote's fished in that pond and church growth for him and REC has been by "picking up straggling AC" congregations as he could. Additionally, Roy's academic background is not stellar.
VirtueOnline - News - Exclusives - UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Moved to REC
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UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Moved to REC Reformed Episcopal Bishop Royal Grote Denies Irregular Transfers
By David W. Virtue www.virtueonline.org
November 3, 2009
The Presiding Bishop of the 30-year-old United Episcopal Church of North America (UECNA) has deposed two of his bishops because they joined the Reformed Episcopal Church (REC).Archbishop Stephen Reber wrote a letter to his clergy saying that he had deposed Bishop Wes Nolden, who now serves as a bishop of the REC/ACNA in the Missionary Diocese of the Central States, because he conspired to leave the UECNA before his consecration.
He also deposed Nolden's Archdeacon, the Rev. David Straw. Another bishop, Sam Seamans also left the UECNA and was received into the REC.
As soon as the vote was taken I called Bishop Reber to inform him of the vote of my parish and I resigned effective immediately. It was the day after I resigned that I was examined and received into the REC. I did everything by the book, as did my parish.
Both Nolden and Straw are ministers of Trinity Anglican Church in Evansville, Indiana. Both men have been received into the REC/ACNA. Both men deny any irregularity in their move from the UECNA to the REC. REC Bishop Royal U. Grote also denies any irregularity in their move to the REC.
Reber said that given the fact that this event could have (and still might) damage relations with the Anglican Catholic Church (ACC) and the Anglican Province of Christ the King (APCK), he was deposing Nolden.
In a letter to Nolden, Reber wrote, "It has come to light that, previous to your so-called consecration as UECNA Bishop in January of 2009, you indicated your intention to leave the ministry of the UECNA for joinder of another Church, using the office of Bishop of UECNA as part of your intention. It is hereby declared, therefore, that your so-called consecration as Bishop of UECNA is invalid, that you did not ever become a Bishop of the UECNA, and any reference to your becoming a Bishop is untrue. You are respectfully requested to make known this fact and to pronounce such fact to any inquirer."
As Presiding Bishop of UECNA, in recognition of Canon 63 of the laws of the UECNA and any other applicable law, having learned of your joinder of the Reformed Episcopal Church and consequent abandonment of communion of the UECNA, I hereby declare that you are deposed from the ministry of the UECNA and the announcement of same has been made."
Reber concluded, "Brothers, I hope this may go a small way in healing this breach that occurred. I know that Bishop Robinson attended your (ACC) Synod in Richmond. The text of this letter has been provided to the ACC and APCK Bishops.
"However, Bishop Royal U. Grote, Bishop Ordinary in the Diocese of Mid-America, paints a different picture of events regarding their departure and joining of the REC saying the deposition of the two men is invalid. "You can't depose someone after they left your jurisdiction. Both Wes Nolden and Sam Seamans are bishops in good standing in the REC," he told VOL.Of the timeline
Grote commented, "I had no contact with Wes Nolden or Sam Seamans prior to their consecration in January, 2009. I was contacted in March 2009. They were not received into the REC until April of 2009. Letters were sent to Bishop Reber in April asking for transfers. No response was given. Suddenly, in June, the presiding bishop of UECNA decides that he can depose them after they were made bishops because of their intent not to remain in the UECNA.
"Remember you are dealing with an extremely small continuing Church group here with less than a dozen parishes who have little more than 10 people in them. Four of their small parishes and missions chose to leave and join the REC. Their desire was to be a part of something that wasn't run out of someone's home den. I think if you examine the time sequence of events, the so called deposition doesn't add up.
"Grote went on to say that David Straw is a Presbyter in good standing. "All were properly examined and received according to the constitution and Canons of the REC.""I did not conspire to leave the UECNA prior to Bishop Nolden's consecration. There is no proof of this existing anywhere because it simply did not happen," Straw told VOL."
I have never received notification in writing regarding this at all. I also do not believe that any of the other priests or deacons who left the UECNA for the REC at roughly the same time I did received anything in writing as well. Canon 63 of the Canons of the UECNA clearly states that I was to be notified and given a six month suspension and a chance to respond to these charges. This never happened.
"Straw said that initially Archbishop Reber gave Trinity and its clergy his "blessing" in regards to their leaving.
"However, after we left Archbishop Reber changed his mind and sent out an e-mail condemning the action. It is pretty much a fact of history that the REC and the UECNA have exchanged clergy in the past and have had previously a positive relationship. "The Continuum is acting like TEC. If you leave for the new province we will depose you. I have never received a letter telling me I was deposed. I was never informed that there were proceedings against me of any type."
In a "Dear Little Flock" letter that VOL obtained, Reber berates the Reformed Episcopal Church describing them as "non-Continuing- non Episcopal - non Anglican" who left the "Anglican world in 1870 over what they perceived as a Catholic direction among Anglican - Episcopalians at that time.
"I cannot help but wonder how this most perplexing agenda could inspire a Suffragan bishop, an Archdeacon, and a Priest and Deacon in Holy Orders, under vows to break, abandon, and deny their most sacred obligation??? But then again, among the apostles there was Judas," wrote Reber.
An exasperated Straw wrote back, "Why attack a member of the REC College of Bishops and the House of Bishops in the ACNA? People move back and forth between other denominational bodies all the time and there is not this kind of bitterness. I sincerely do not understand why church bodies carry-on with this sort of thing and take away from time and energy that could be focused on spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ."
Straw admitted that in the spring of 2009 there was a movement among the laity and clergy in his parish and in other UECNA parishes regarding the viability of the UECNA and its failure to form a cohesive witness to Jesus Christ along with other Anglican bodies in the.
"I cannot tell you the heartbreak I felt as a clergyman when parishioners would run up to me excitedly holding articles clipped out of the newspaper that spoke about the new ACNA that was forming and I would have to tell them..."I am sorry. That's not what we are part of." Then these people would ask what we were part of and I would be left trying to explain the mess that is the Continuing Church movement. It simply broke my heart that I could give these people no hope for a national church home." A total of four parishes have left the UECNA along with the UECNA's National Military Chaplain, Fr. Daniel Sparks.
An estimated ten clergyman (including two bishops) have left the UECNA, according to Straw."I believe that the Continuing Church movement has failed to create a cohesive national church in over thirty years. When TEC imploded there was not a suitable place for Episcopalians to go because of the division and infighting that has been the hallmark of the Continuum. All of the parishes that left the UECNA voted to leave in overwhelming numbers because they wanted to be part of a growing and vibrant national church. The ACNA has allowed this to happen for those of us who left.
"Bishop Nolden wrote VOL to say he had no plans to leave the UECNA prior to his consecration as bishop. "I have no idea how he arrived at that conclusion and I would be very interested to see any hard evidence he has to support such an unfortunate false statement. In fact, after I advised Bishop Reber of our parish's decision to leave the UECNA for the REC he contacted one of the bishops who was consecrated with me, who eventually also left for the REC, and told this bishop that I left with his (Reber's) blessing. This bishop told me Bishop Reber advised him to pray about the situation and do what was best for his parish and himself."
Nolden said Reber sent him a letter advising him that he had been deposed, but that was about three months after he had left and had already been received into the REC House of Bishops. "I received the letter at my home while I was attending the ACNA Inaugural Assembly in Ft. Worth. My wife read it to me over the telephone. Since most of our bishops were at the Assembly I spoke with my (REC) Ordinary, Bishop Dan Morse, as well as Bishops Roy Grote, Ray Sutton, and our Presiding Bishop Leonard Riches immediately after being advised of the letter's contents. All of our lead bishops assured me this has no bearing on my position in the REC. Several of my brother bishops in the ACNA College of Bishops who were deposed by PB Jefferts Schori were fascinated that a continuing church appeared to be using the same tactics as TEC toward those who chose to leave for the new province."
Bishop Seamans wrote to VOL and said this, "My parish voted to leave the UECNA for the REC at a parish meeting in April. It was AFTER that point that I traveled to Dallas, Texas to meet with Bishop Grote and Bishop Sutton for a meeting and examination in accordance with the REC canons, said Seamans."Since that time I have intentionally refrained from disparaging Bishop Reber or making public any criticisms of his office or the UECNA. I wish them well, and there are still many lay folks and clergy in the continuum that I love and care about. "
After the news of +Nolden's departure and the three parishes broke I was heartbroken, and I spent many hours on the phone with Bishop Reber. He told me that I needed to meet with my vestry, pray about it, and then do what was best for my parish and myself. That is what I did, and for following his advice I was deposed."
Church of the Resurrection,Fr. Gregory Mashburn, rector of the Anglican Church of the Resurrection, Shalimar, Florida, is pastor of one of four parishes that left the UECNA this past spring. Over the past few years many members of the parish have expressed a great deal of frustration over the lack of pastoral care and leadership from Archbishop Reber, Mashburn told VOL."The previous rector had served the parish for 24 years. Owing to health issues and the distance he lived from the parish, he was not able to adequately provide pastoral care to the faithful or surrounding community. There were also serious concerns over the increased number of rather odd, terse, disjointed letters and oral statements from Archbishop Reber on issues ranging from the departure of a previous Suffragan Bishop Leo Michael, to how to say the word "saith", or not to bow too far at the name of Jesus or the "Glory be," to our own departure from the UECNA this past Spring."
Following my call to the parish I began to hear numerous concerns from the majority of the members of the parish about their disappointment of, and frustrations with, Archbishop Reber. It had been two years since he had visited them. They felt neglected and their concerns about the direction of the UECNA and the Continuing Anglican movement were not being addressed."
Discussions about moving to a viable, growing, and mission oriented jurisdiction that was healthy were already under way long before I arrived," he told VOL.
Mashburn urged the members to remain faithful and to focus on the mission and calling of the parish within the UECNA. But by March 2009, he could no longer deny the concerns of a majority of members of the parish.
Following prayer and research, the parish felt led to talk with leaders of the Reformed Episcopal Church, as a founding member of the province of the Anglican Church in North America. "Our members felt that that was the jurisdiction and province the parish was being called to engage a relationship with.
"Following a unanimous Vestry vote, the parish moved to the Reformed Episcopal Church. Fr. Mashburn and Deacon Brown (now Fr. Brown) attended a meeting with REC Bishops Grote and Sutton of the Diocese of Mid-America in order to make them aware of the parish's potential move.
"On March 30, I spoke with Archbishop Reber to make him aware of all of the details on this possible move. Reber had been made aware of the possible move earlier in the day by the previous rector. I was accused of orchestrating this potential move with a member of the parish, and was also told by Reber that he would have had more respect for me and the parish if we joined with the Unitarian Universalists, rather than the REC. It was very clear that Reber had nothing good to say about the REC, or any other founding part of the ACNA.
"We were accused of making this move for our own personal agenda. In actuality, the parish made this move out of a clear desire and move by the Holy Spirit to be where God was and is blessing His work and mission to bring the transforming love of Jesus Christ to a lost and hurting world. Before the end of the day all references to our parish was stricken from the UECNA website which was taken as a sign that we had basically been excommunicated. We had not even voted.
On April 5, at a special meeting the parish membership voted overwhelmingly to join the REC."
OTHER CONTINUING CHURCH NEWS
There are signs of reshuffling within the Continuing movement following the recent announcement by Rome that they will accept traditionalist Anglicans into their church. It might also indicate that the Continuing Church movement is slowly breaking up. VOL received a note saying that Bishop Rocco Florenza was received into the Anglican Catholic Church (ACC) at their Provincial Synod in Richmond, VA, recently following his resignation from the Anglican Church in America (ACA). The bishops of the ACC voted unanimously to receive Bishop Florenza in his episcopal orders. He has been appointed the Episcopal Visitor for the New England Diocese. Two years ago Florenza took all but three parishes from the eastern diocese of the Anglican Province of Christ the King (APCK) to the ACA. On this occasion there were no parishes involved. A source told VOL that his move had everything to do with the recent proclamation from Rome to receive traditionalist Anglicans. "He (Florenza) came from Rome and has apparently vowed never to be associated with them ever again." Another source told VOL that Florenza wants the unity of Anglican-Catholics without the dogmatic accretions of Rome."END
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sentinel
Posted: 2009/11/3 20:00 Updated: 2009/11/3 20:00
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Re: UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Mov...
Wow.... (and that is about all I can say about this)
Sodslaw
Posted: 2009/11/3 20:48 Updated: 2009/11/3 20:48
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From: Orthodox Bunker
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WHO CARES?
Who cares, these people are playing fancy dress, they devalue the word bishop and make it clear that their game is all about power!Go-Catholic, for Salvations Sake!
AnglicanVa
Posted: 2009/11/3 22:34 Updated: 2009/11/3 22:34
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/6/28
From: Locust Grove, Va
Posts: 38
Re: UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Mov...
I might not be the brightest apple on the tree, but if you are consecrated in January 2009, contact the REC in March 2009, then recieved in April 2009. Also, there is no way a church just descides in under two months to leave a body it has been with for years, especially when the priest is made a Bishop. Becoming a Bishop is well known way in advanced.There might not be no hard facts, but I say there is really no way these guys didn't know they were leaving. Becoming a Bishop is suppose to be about growing the church, not distroying it. they never even tried to improve thier jurisdiction at all. These guys are the lowest of the lowest. I don't blame Bishop Rebar at all, I think he had all the right in the world to do what he did, after getting stabbed in the back.Good luck to the REC, if these are the kind of guys you stand behind, you got a suprise coming your way. This is nothing like the TEC deposing Bishops.
dannyiseli
Posted: 2009/11/3 22:59 Updated: 2009/11/3 22:59
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 2006/6/18
From: new jersey
Posts: 28
Re: UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Mov...
Between Jezebel deposing bishops left and right and now this unknown.... If it takes a minimum of the laying on of hands of three bishops to consecrate one, doesn't it make sense that a quorum or college of episcopal consensus should be required for a deposition???? I wonder whether there is any historical canonical precedent for this? Sounds like Roman pontificalism to me. Maybe the presbyterian system should be considered to prevent such rash unilateral decisions. That's the way we do government in the USA.
Andrewes
Posted: 2009/11/3 23:15 Updated: 2009/11/3 23:34
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Re: UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Mov...
The church that Nolden contacted before his consecration was the AMiA, per the church in O'Fallon. This contact was told to Archbishop Reber after the fact, hence the deposition. Nolden was going to attempt to join AMiA with his fledgling parish only AFTER being consecrated, according to AMiA. A couple of priests from AMiA intended to object to the consecration before it happened but got weak knees. Nolden's history is questionable at best. The UECNA is finding more things all the time. Many objected to his leaving the UECNA after being ordained a priest to join the Orthodox Church in America (OCA) as a layman seeking ordination. He returned a month later (pleading with the Archbishop), and was returned to orders. He then was elected a Suffragan Bishop. This is the UECNA's fault. He should never have been elected, let alone consecrated. More information is learned about him all the time. Yes, a real win for the REC. No theological education save a year and a half at General Theological Seminary as an ECUSA aspirant many years back. Great addition to the ACNA House of Bishops! Well done gentlemen!
xenophore
Posted: 2009/11/4 2:49 Updated: 2009/11/4 2:49
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From: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 154
Re: UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Mov...
The episcopi vagantes, they are a-wandering.
railbirdbc
Posted: 2009/11/4 3:30 Updated: 2009/11/4 3:30
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Re: UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Mov...
Andrewes:I agree with your comments about the dubious theological background of some of these Continuing Anglican clergy and bishops. I find it one of the most troubling aspects of the many spin-off Anglican-style groups. For example, I know of two clergy, one a priest and one a bishop, who claim in their biographical histories to have attended and even graduated from the same theological college I attended, and at about the same time that I was there. But I do not remember ever seeing them as students at my college, nor are their names officially connected with the institution as alumni. Additionally, I know both men quite well. In another instance, there is the case of a Continuing jurisdiction that has founded its own seminary. Then suddenly, shortly after the seminary was opened, all of its high ranking clergy listed graduate theological degrees after their names, as well as Doctorates in Divinity (honorary). When I knew some of them they were just plain old Bachelors of Arts, and they couldn't have possibly fulfilled the years necessary to get their Master's degrees in theology completed. Obviously they awarded themselves degrees immediately after establishing their seminary. When these people pull these cheap stunts they cheapen the whole academic process for the rest of us. The majority of us had to work long and hard to achieve our lowly diplomas and degrees.As to the question of seminary trained clergy, I am not snobbish about this point. Many great ministers of God in the past did not possess degrees of higher learning. Men like Matthew Henry (of Matthew Henry's Commentary fame), Richard Baxter (of The Reformed Pastor fame), and many others, were very great ministers of God regardless of their lack of theological credentials. My first theological teacher was my uncle, a man who was pastor of a small non-conformist chapel; he never enjoyed the benefits of a seminary or college degree, but he was an ardent Bible student, and taught himself Hebrew and Greek, and mastered the very best commentaries available to him. But the bottom line for all of us is Caveat Emptor! (let the buyer beware) when it comes to which Anglican groups are the real deal and which are not. It is dangerous for us to entrust our souls to men ill equipped to teach and lead.
Yo-Am
Posted: 2009/11/4 3:58 Updated: 2009/11/4 3:58
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Re: UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Mov...
I find the most peculiar thing the claim that the consecration was invalid and never happened. That seems an incredible assertion, and frankly, reflects very badly on UECNA. Given the hysterical reaction of Bishop Reber I'm sure these fine bishops are quite happy to be removed from that mess...Schori: "You left? Fine, I depose you and you are no longer a bishop"Reber: "You left? Hah, you were never even a bishop in the first place!"
Kelpie
Posted: 2009/11/4 6:23 Updated: 2009/11/4 6:23
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Joined: 2006/7/5
From: Scotland
Posts: 245
Re: UECNA Presiding Bishop Deposes Former Bishops Who Mov...
All very edifying, ain't it???Such capers bring ridicule and shame upon the traditionalist cause.
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